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May 17, 2022

71: Textured Knits

71: Textured Knits

This week's episode is all about textured knitting - different types you might encounter and a few we love. Our letter writer wanted us to talk about the process of opening a yarn shop, and we definitely have a few things to say about that!

We're talking about textured knitting this week!

Some of our favorite designers for textured knits:

What's on our needles this week:

Get ready for our summer KAL!

This round's theme is CABLES! We'll be kicking things off June 1.

Send us your letters!

Support make good: a knitting podcast


Karen 00:00:07 Hi, and welcome to Make Good, the podcast about yarn and knitting from scratch, the Plateau. We're recording today from downtown Lebanon, New Hampshire, and we're really excited to be here. I'm Karen.

Jessica 00:00:16 And I'm Jessica.

Karen 00:00:17 Let's talk about text textured knits today.

Jessica 00:00:21 I thought you'd never ask if we could. Actually, a bunch of you have been asking us to talk about textured knit. So today is the day to talk about this lovely squishy family of net options.

Karen 00:00:33 It used to be that color work was this big hurdle for people. Sure they would get to the point where they're like, cool, I'm ready to make a sweater or whatever the big goal project was for them. And then once they've done that, they were like, okay, now I'm going to start messing with my fabric. And so for a while, it was multiple colors, and I think increasingly it's showing up now as texture.

Jessica 00:00:55 I would agree with that. I think in the last few years we've seen I don't want to say texture reemerging, but just like an upswell of more involved and interesting and exciting textures showing up in projects. And I think that that's paired a little bit with the enthusiasm over breed specific fibers where they're non Superwash yarns. We're talking about wool specifically right now, but non super wash fiber that's probably being dyed in the wool before it's milled but maybe died afterwards. But it's single source or like a very specific blend of fibers. And it's not variegated or speckled or like high contrast, color changing yarns, but like kind of very solid or tonal more subtle yarns that have specific characteristics that designers are looking to highlight. And playing with texture in their designs is a way to do that. So instead of letting the die work on the fiber do the heavy lifting right now, we're kind of being guided to try different types of textures in our projects.

Karen 00:02:08 So when we're talking about textured knitting, what is it that we're talking about?

Jessica 00:02:12 I like to think of textured knitting as a big umbrella term for the different types of fabric characteristics that we create as knitters. Knit fabric that is not strictly Stockinette is what we're talking about here. So there's something more than a smooth, uniform stitch throughout your fabric. So it might be all over texture. It might be a repeating pattern somewhere. It might be just like a specific panel, or it might shift throughout the pattern, but it's something that breaks up the expansive plane of just stock inet stitching. Even reverse stock in it is more textured than stocking. It stitches, so there are lots of options. So you construct your textured stitches, whatever they may be, using combinations of knits and pearls. You may have twisted stitches involved. Perhaps the technique that you're using takes advantage of slip stitches. There might be increases and decreases or wrapped stitches to create squish and dimension and kind of change the landscape of the fabric. That you're knitting by hand.

Karen 00:03:23 So there are a bunch of different design elements under the umbrella. Also things like repeating patterns, cables. Lace is also textured mosaic knitting and then things like ribbing and brioche.

Jessica 00:03:35 Yeah. Let's dig into what they are just a little bit. So if anyone is unfamiliar with any of those techniques, we can all get on the same page. Let's start with repeating patterns. Sometimes you'll see a motif in a scarf or on the body or sleeve of a sweater where you've got arrows or diamond shapes or hearts or stars. Like, we're getting very lucky charms here. There's some sort of design element that's repeating itself, and that's what we're referring to. When you see repeating patterns, it might be like a singular shape, it might be a larger panel, and it's something that's happening more than once in the fabric that you're making. Repeating patterns can kind of contain any of the other textured types of knitting that we're going to mention. It's just that it's happening more than once in a clear section. Repeat.

Karen 00:04:30 I think cables are one of the most easily identifiable. Even if you're not a knitter, you might know what a cable is. It's like a braid that is welded onto your fabric. Okay, that was for the non knitters. You're basically putting usually more than one stitch, usually like two, three, four stitches in relief in, like, two sections, and then you're leaving those two sections in and out of each other. As you think about the invention of knitting. Somebody, somebody, somebody was being very, very smart because if you actually spend time to look at the construction of them, it's like big 3D printer brain.

Jessica 00:05:12 Absolutely. Cables can be really simple, but they can also be exceptionally complicated. And I don't know that my brain has it in itself to translate that kind of work onto paper so other people could reproduce it. It's an exciting thing. Once you get into cables, there's an opportunity for the geometry part of your brain to really geek out and get excited about the three dimensional options available to you. Lace knitting. I like to think of it as cabling's cousin. Lace knitting can happen at any scale. I think a lot of people think of, like, really fine Shetland lace. When they think of lace, they think of beautiful doilies that you might have seen at your grandma's house. Or if you were a person who may have had to wear a dress as a child in the 80s, there could have been, wow, lace collars on them. Lace is a special thing for a lot of people, but when you think about it in terms of knitting, you're basically creating panels of open stitch work. And some of them are really simple, like eyelet is a type of lace. And we've talked about Islets in past episodes, but they can also be really, I don't want to say, complicated but complex depictions of things like flowers and all sorts of repeating design elements. In this open stitch work, that's texture, too. There are holes, there are raised sections where stitches are being combined together in the form of decreases. And if you run your hand over a panel of lace, it might not be the most high relief texture, like big cables might be, but there is a lot of texture happening in that fabric. Mosaic knitting is also a type of textured knitting that I like to think of as the sleeper knitting. Like. It's the secret textured knitting, because mostly it's categorized as color work and mosaic stitches, instead of carrying color across the back of your work, like stranded color work involves slipping stitches and alternating colors, and the process of slipping stitches to get multiple colors in one row of knitting involves elongating stitches. So even if they're all knit stitches, the elongated stitches create relief and texture. It's subtle. It's not like big popping cables, but it's not flat stock in it either, because your textures have different length and depth, and there's strands of yarn running behind them that push them into relief. A lot of mosaic knit patterns engage knits and pearls, too. So it's not just flat knit stitches with the occasional popping slip stitch. There are knits and pearls that create these pops and bursts of color, no matter how many colors are involved in the project. So while it's not necessarily the first textured knit option that comes to mind when you're thinking about it, I think it's a kind of fun intersection of texture and color work at the same time.

Karen 00:08:11 One of the textured elements that you might find in a project is ribbing, which is just alternating knits and Purls in some proportion. It could be one, one rib where you're knitting one Purling one.

Jessica 00:08:22 It could be two.

Karen 00:08:23 Two rib where you're knitting two Purling, two. They could be not even numbers, but you are creating a textured band around the edge of your fabric.

Jessica 00:08:32 Love that ribbing. And one of our other favorite textured stitches is brioche. Brioche is kind of like ribbing that also involves wrapping stitches, so it's like ribbing with, like, three dimensions. There's a lot of squish factor to that fabric because every stitch has a second stitch that kind of wraps around it. If your stitch had a little shawl hugging its shoulders, oh, how sweet. So it's really squishy and stretchy and gives you a lot of opportunity to play with aesthetic, whether it's just one color brioche or multicolored brioche. So when you're knitting textured projects, this can happen on any type of fabric. You might be knitting flat fabric, like you're knitting a scarf or a shawl or a sweater that's going to be seamed, but it also happens in the round. There are lots of textured options in sock patterns, on your hats, on your hand warmers and mittens, so it really is an option kind of on anything that you're making. And when you're actually knitting your textured project from a pattern, you have options available to you. Your designer may have written the instructions for you in line by line pattern instructions where it's telling you exactly what stitches to do at every point. But you might also be working from a chart. And if you've got a pattern that has both of those elements present for you, you get to pick and choose what works best for your knitter brain, which is kind of nice.

Karen 00:10:07 You could also bring texture into a project that doesn't have it in the pattern just by changing the fabric that you're knitting. If you were working on a stock net sweater pattern, you could just use Moss stitch or Garter stitch or any sort of textured technique on that sweater pattern.

Jessica 00:10:26 You could pop a cable right into the center, front or off centre be asymmetrical you could design your own accessory. Say you want to knit a cabled shawl. You can just pick a cable pattern or chart that already exists and start knitting. You figure out how wide you want it to be. So if you have, say, an eight stitch textured pattern, maybe you want a 32 stitchwide scarf. You just work those repeats until it's as long as you want it to be. And poof, you have a textured scarf that you've designed basically all on your own.

Karen 00:11:00 Depending on the kind of texture, you may not need to incorporate, like a Garter or a ribbed edge, because the texture itself may do the work of keeping that fabric flat for you, which is kind of a nice bonus. Okay. So if you were going to do some textured knitting, what kind of yarn are you looking for?

Jessica 00:11:21 That's a good question, and I'm going to say it depends. So I feel a little bit that I'm dodging the question here, but it really does depend. What kind of stitch definition do you want? What is your goal aesthetic for this project that you're knitting? If you want really crisp, clear stitches, you're going to want to look for specific types of yarn, something that's worsted spun, which means the yarn is kind of uniform in its twist. And if it's got a tight twist, sometimes you'll hear these yarns being described as round yarns. It'll be tight and smooth along the whole length of the skein. We're not talking about thick and thin kind of hand spun yarn here. Those will give you very crisp texture elements because each stitch kind of holds its own shape.

Karen 00:12:13 The description of a yarn as round implies that out there exists square, triangular, Octagon, other shaped yarn that has gone through those, like Plato molds.

Jessica 00:12:27 Yeah.

Karen 00:12:29 It's one of those unique situations where it is both accurate and absurdist. Very much.

Jessica 00:12:37 So, in my opinion. I think that wool is really ideally suited to textured knits. People have other preferences that's cool. You knit with what you like, but I think that the characteristics of wool, the balance, the elasticity, the kind of way that the fibers laid when it's milled in a worsted spun way allows it to really make those textures pop. If your preference, though, is for a softer stitch definition, your ethereal Halo enhance or just kind of fuzzy, soft knits, you have other options wool and spun yarns, which means that the ply is less tight and less uniform. There is, like, air in between the individual strands that make up your yarn. These will have softer stitch definition. And when you block them, because we know that you always block your finished objects to let them be their most beautiful, those yarns will Bloom and kind of fill in your fabric and plump up. That will give you a softer aesthetic to your finished knit.

Karen 00:13:41 The other thing is a single ply yarn, which tends to have more drape to begin with, different fiber contents, like wool that is drapeier or alpaca or silk blends that's going to give you a little bit softer stitch definition or a single ply yarn. Also the least round of all the yarn, the single ply, indeed, closely followed by octagonal.

Jessica 00:14:04 Can I tell you about my most failed, least favorite textured knitting experience? So I thought I would knit us a shop sample out of a very beautiful, very lovely yarn that is a blend of fibers that I don't usually work with. And it was a single ply, alpaca and silk blend, and it's gorgeous yarn. And yet I thought I was going to knit a linen stitch piece out of this and a it destroyed my hands, and I just couldn't muscle through it because the fiber had no elasticity. It was not a bouncy fiber. It was single ply. It was silk. It just had the structure in the shape that it had, and it definitely was not around yarn. I did the least elastic stitch pattern that I could imagine, and I just couldn't make it work. So that shop sample never came to be. I tried, and I knew when to throw in the towel on that one because it was not my journey.

Karen 00:15:02 An attempt was made. I think the moral of that story is before you commit to an entire project and a textured pattern, you need to knit a swatch.

Jessica 00:15:13 Am I being called out for telling people? Last week I totally swatch because I definitely didn't swatch for that linen stitch. If I had, I would have known.

Karen 00:15:25 And some of this is practical, because if you are swatching in stockinette and it's not a stockinette pattern, your gauge may be totally different. So you always want to swatch in the fabric that you're actually going to be making.

Jessica 00:15:38 Yeah, maybe it seems obvious, but that's an easy one to miss. We sometimes are on autopilot if we're feeling motivated to do a swatch, and we just start knitting and then your gauge has nothing to do with what you're actually creating. Oops.

Karen 00:15:53 And it gives you an opportunity to preview what the fabric is actually going to look like. Maybe the yarn that you've chosen just isn't going to treat that texture the way you want it to.

Jessica 00:16:03 Or maybe you get through your very textured Swatch using cotton yarn that you love. And by the end of your four plus inch Swatch, your hands are like, no, my friend, this needs to be something with a little bit more bounce to it because these stitches are kind of tight.

Karen 00:16:20 So who are some designers that people who are interested in getting into textured knitting might want to check out?

Jessica 00:16:26 So let's start with Nora gone. Nora is like this bright, shining star of textural innovation in Hanit design world. Her cables are exemplary, and she does really interesting things with twisted stitches. Her most recent book is a deep exploration of pleats in knitwear. It's just all very interesting and kind of unexpected and a delightful challenge to reproduce with your own two human hands.

Karen 00:16:57 Nora's academic background is in biology. She very much brings that patterns in nature feeling to her cables and her patterns overall. Sometimes you'll hear Jessica and I be like, how do different brains work? I often feel that way about Nora's patterns. There's also Brandy Cheyenne Harper.

Jessica 00:17:18 Yes, we talked about her book recently on the podcast, and her designs are bold and yet comfort knitting at the same time. She designs a lot in heavier weights of yarn, so any textural element that exists is more eye catching by nature of its scale. It's like a fresh approach to incorporating Garter and ribbing as textural elements into your projects, because at like a very small scale tight gauge, it's maybe unremarkable or not the most noticed element of the fabric. But when you're working with big yarns and big needles, they just really kind of pop. And it's an exciting way to revisit those foundational textured elements.

Karen 00:18:04 What about Irene Lynn?

Jessica 00:18:05 Irene Lynn has a really impressive body of work, but for me, she's a newer designer. I've just learned about her work recently. Her aesthetic is really beautiful, like wearable garments, kind of between, like, all over texture in her fabrics to pops of bobbles or pops of cables and lace panels, too. So if you're interested in experimenting in a range of those textured elements, she has a lot to choose from.

Karen 00:18:34 The other place to maybe check out, and this isn't a recommendation for any particular designer, but the Blue Sky Fibers pattern catalog on their website because they not infrequently have patterns that are samplers of different textured fabric where you're casting on some number of stitches and you're knitting a panel in one texture for a while, and you're knitting maybe a lace panel, and then you're knitting a ribbon panel. Almost all of those you could do with literally any yarn. And it's just kind of a fun way to play around with some of those different ideas.

Jessica 00:19:06 So if texture is new to you, you have lots of different avenues to explore. And maybe you're not a cable person. Maybe you decide that you love Brioche, but you should spend a little bit of time exploring options and figure out what you like to make.

Karen 00:19:22 So what's on your needles right now?

Jessica 00:19:23 Well, I'm in between projects, but you know what? Not for bad reasons. I have finished my Rift amazing, which is great, because I totally started it last year. Last week, you learned that I abandoned my other projects to pick the Rift back up and said I was never going to finish anything but low. I have pattern details. I knit that using Arcadia from less traveled yarn. I picked the loam color way because it is distressingly similar to my skin color. It is, yeah. It's a weird naked shirt, but it was for the ShelliCan naked knitted. So mission accomplished. And I knit the Rift with the Vneck on the front, and I made a couple of changes. I used bus starts, and then I also made the V neck start earlier than she tells you to in the pattern, which meant I had to adjust the length of my sides, like my front right and my front left to make it long enough so that my shoulder joins would meet, which involved some amount of playing around with stitches and short rows. I hadn't really thought through what I was doing until I was already immersed in the process.

Karen 00:20:36 But it worked out.

Jessica 00:20:37 I also realized I was running out of yarn, which was exciting. And to follow the pattern for the short sleeves, I was going to have to wind a whole new skein for, like, ten yards. And I said, no, that's not happening. So instead of doing the cute little picked up ribbed cuffs for the short sleeves, I got creative and just did an applied I cord edge to my armholes and also on the back of the neck, because I wasn't thrilled with how the bind off looked. But the front of my V neck looked fine. So I just went from, like, shoulder seam across the back of my neck to the other shoulder seam to button that up a little bit. And I'm pretty pleased with it.

Karen 00:21:17 If I'm remembering right, because of the way the neckline of that pattern in particular, you kind of get to choose the way she has you bind off. You're going in, like, multiple directions, and so covering it up with an ICORD if you don't like it is a really good solution.

Jessica 00:21:31 Yeah. I was like, we talked about I cords recently. I know what to do here. I'm going to use it as camouflage. It's a decorative element, and I had just enough yardage to get it done, so it was a real squeak across the finish line moment for me. What's on your needles, Karen?

Karen 00:21:49 I am still working on my Sunshine on my shoulders. I have now gotten into the section of intargia where I have three colors in one row, which means five total balls of yarn because it's symmetrical with the sun graphic in the center. So I have two colors on each side of the sun graphic, and in the pattern, she says that it's fun, and I am going with that. I'm going to be really glad when I get through those three color rows.

Jessica 00:22:15 Is that your guiding phrase? You just whisper to yourself - this is fun, this is fun. Every time you switch colors.

Karen 00:22:23 Exactly. And you know what? It's totally, totally worth it. And I'm excited about this, but it is definitely my tangly yarn nightmare right now. In the scale of the sweater, it's a brief period of tangly yarn nightmare.

Jessica 00:22:38 I'm cheering you on because I think this is going to be such a fantastic sweater when it's done. I can't wait to see it.

Karen 00:22:45 We're going to do a letter.

Jessica 00:22:46 Yeah.

Karen 00:22:49 We're breaking our format a little bit because it's kind of a letter for both of us. And I have a housekeeping note before we get into it. We've been doing our best to make assumptions based on the name of the person who is submitting the letter. But that's definitely not foolproof, and we don't want to misgender anybody. So just if you think of it when you send your email, include your pronouns and we would appreciate it.

Jessica 00:23:09 That'd be awesome.

Karen 00:23:25 This week's letter comes from Finch.

Jessica 00:23:25 Hey, Finch!

Karen 00:23:25 How did you manage to start up a yarn shop? What was your process from conception to implementation? What are some troubles you faced? And what advice would you give to somebody who wants to open their own knitting shop and or make knitting a more professional part of their life?

Jessica 00:23:45 Well, isn't that a whole bunch of fun questions? We're going to do our best to answer you in a kind of non typical way.

Karen 00:23:54 As is everything we do that's the first thing that we want to say is that when we first opened our shop, we were not only a yarn shop in retrospect, we should have seen that we should have just opened a yarn shop because that's all we wanted to do. But we also had fabric and we had art supplies. We operated on the guiding principle that people who are crafty in one way or crafty in lots of ways. And we have a maker space. We have, like, a handcraft maker space downstairs of the location that our shop used to be in.

Jessica 00:24:23 We felt like we were very cutting edge, and we miscalculated the need for that type of space in the community that we move to to open our shop.

Karen 00:24:34 Makerspaces are amazing, either providing access to a big range of specialty equipment and tools that the community wouldn't otherwise necessarily have access to, or when they are in an urban environment where they are providing available space to people who are largely living in apartments or in much smaller housing and don't have space to spread out. Where they are not really necessary is in rural New Hampshire.

Jessica 00:25:01 Okay, I'm going to say that we're maybe a little bit misled by the community that we move to because we're technically a city. We're one of the handful of cities in New Hampshire. But city is a strong word. We're a small community that's not dense population. So people have space. There is physical space accessible to people, even if it's not in your own yard, like your neighbor has a barn that they haven't used in 20 years. And they don't care if you go out there and set up wood shop, there is room for people to do things here. So our little maker space was not in high demand in the way that we hoped it was.

Karen 00:25:39 The reason we bring this up is that this was one of the really valuable pieces of helpful information that we could give you is sometimes you misjudge something and you have to be ready to let it go.

Jessica 00:25:51 Yes, this was the first of many things that we do with. But yeah, when you ask what troubles we face, I think for small businesses, failed experiments are reality. Do you think you have this great idea? And you're like, well, I guess I'm the only person who wants to do that. I guess that was an idea for me and not for public consumption. And if you can learn from that and change what you're doing, your chances of success increase, being able to step back and remove your emotional entanglement in this handcraft makerspace that people are not wanting to use. You can let it go. Give that back to the universe and identify what the thing is that the community does want to be doing with you.

Karen 00:26:39 You ask about our process. I want to talk a little bit about what the shop looked like when we first opened it.

Jessica 00:26:46 It was really cute.

Karen 00:26:47 We often described ourselves as scrappy. It was very scrappy.

Jessica 00:26:51 It was super scrappy.

Karen 00:26:52 It was furnished largely from secondhand stores and the plumbing supply place. I built these somehow very complicated plumbing shelves that we like, bolted to the wall pipe with just plywood for the actual shelf part. So we had all of this other stuff, and then we had a shelf. On that shelf we had one colorway each--we agonized over--from each color family, not two blues, one blue.

Jessica 00:27:19 It was our cool.

Karen 00:27:20 Yeah, our cool color.

Jessica 00:27:23 A couple of neutrals. But if you wanted dark gray and light gray, we probably didn't have both.

Karen 00:27:27 Nope. And sweater quantities of nothing. And then some pictures of what yarn would look like if we had it.

Jessica 00:27:35 And, like, lovely, beautiful boxes of shade cards. So if some kindhearted fiber person wandered into our space and was like. Oh, bless, look at you. I do want to support you. I would like to make a scarf. Can you order four yarn for a scarf? And we say, sure. These are your color options. And we could do it. Looking back, our hearts were very much in the right place, and our resources were finite, and we tried as hard as we could to adapt to that.

Karen 00:28:06 Yes.

Jessica 00:28:07 And grow in baby steps.

Karen 00:28:09 An actual sentence that came out of my mouth very early on was, we don't need sport weight. No one knits with sport weight because of where we are. We're in New Hampshire.

Jessica 00:28:17 So sport weight yarn wasn't the priority. Three weights to choose from.

Karen 00:28:22 We opened with - we had two makes of yarn. Blue Sky was one of them. And I think we had a total of maybe two bases to start with and then pictures of other things.

Jessica 00:28:32 Yeah. So don't do what we did. It's long story short, if you can avoid it.

Karen 00:28:37 And then it just very quickly became clear that that's where our hearts were. And so we sort of made our way toward being a full time yarn shop within about a year and a half of opening. The place that you want to put your energy and you want to put your resources is what the community will value.

Jessica 00:28:54 You asked specifically what kind of advice we would give to someone who wants to open their own knitting shop or make knitting a more professional part of their life. And I would say before you make the jump towards doing that, think about whether you actually want to do that or if you just really love knitting and your goal is to do more knitting. Because sometimes people have a thing that they do that they love, whether it's knitting or decorating elaborate cookies or whatever it is. And you have these people in your life that are like, you're so good at that you should do that. That should be your thing. They may be correct or they may be steering you inadvertently into taking this hobby thing, the stress relief thing that you love, and finding a way to turn it into a job.

Karen 00:29:44 Yes.

Jessica 00:29:45 I would say carefully consider that because it's easy to feel the lure of, oh, I've been to this shop, and it's really beautiful, and the people there are so nice and so helpful. And wouldn't it be fun to knit all day? Because people say that to us all the time.

Karen 00:30:04 Like twice a week. Yeah.

Jessica 00:30:05 And on some level, that makes me feel really good because their experience is totally focused on while I'm having a great time here, which is what we want for everyone. And that also means that we are rendering all of the behind the scenes work and the kind of take-out-the-trash level. File your taxes, do your homework kind of work and making that invisible to people coming into our space, which is how it should be. But when you're considering opening a yarn shop or other fiber related business, you have to take off the rosy colored glasses and remember that they're all of these layers that have to exist in order to make it work.

Karen 00:30:49 So here's the other thing. You don't have to do it by yourself. And this is one of the ways that we, I think, got really lucky, kind of inadvertently. We knew each other, so we had some idea, but we hadn't sat down and been like, okay, this is going to be the thing that Jessica does, and this is going to be the thing that Karen does, and this is going to be the thing that Travis does. But we did very much discover that we had this sort of complementary skill set. The other thing, particularly when you're first starting and this isn't just yarn shops. This could be any small business. It is so much work upfront for so little payoff. You are just flat out working for yourself, and it's very rewarding. And you're definitely not taking days off. And your energy is going to kind of ebb and flow. And having one or two other people there with you who is in a different place in the exhaustion cycle is never a bad thing.

Jessica 00:31:45 Two more things to consider. One, wanting to be a professional in the fiber industry means a lot of different things. Owning a yarn shop isn't the only way you can become involved in the industry of knitting is what you love it's maybe eventually what you end up doing, but it's not necessarily where you have to start to kind of get acclimated as a professional in fiber world. Maybe you are teaching professionally, or maybe you decide to dip your toes into selling yarn by becoming a rep for a company that's, like, established in producing yarn. There are lots of different ways to find how you fit into the landscape. And I think that sometimes it's easy to think there's, like, dyers and there's designers and there's yarn shops, but there are lots of other people that exist in this fiber world, biome that are really essential to all of us being able to do what we do. So maybe you are one of those people. And if you do decide that the yarn shop life chose you, good on you. It's amazing. Get to know your community if you are not already really involved. Like, if you are opening a brick and mortar space, try and get your legs under you in that physical community to figure out who the knitters are and the crocheters are and if there are weavers and what kinds of things people make. Because depending on where you are geographically, even within the same state or county, fiber people's aesthetics and what they're interested in has a lot to do with what their friends are interested in and it varies widely. So one community might be people cranking out socks like crazy and some communities might be sweater people and there's always a mix. But getting to know who your people are in the place that you are choosing to be will really benefit you as you make your decisions about what you want your physical space to be.

Karen 00:33:51 The biggest piece of advice is whatever it is you're doing, it's going to consume you completely. And so if you can't make it work for you -

Jessica 00:33:51 You might want to reassess your plan.

Karen 00:33:51 Yes.

Jessica 00:33:51 Perhaps Finch and anyone else who's listening keep an ear out because maybe we will plan like an Instagram live or something where you can join us and we can just have a conversation with each other in real time and you can ask us some questions and instead of us kind of speculating what level of detail you want you can just ask us pointed questions and we will try and give you clear answers to the best of our ability.

Karen 00:34:28 I think that might be it for us this week.

Jessica 00:34:28 It sure is. So you can listen to make good podcast everywhere--literally everywhere--that podcasts exist and if you haven't subscribed yet you should.

Karen 00:34:38 We're not on YouTube

Jessica 00:34:38 'Case that's a YouTube it's not a podcast.

Karen 00:34:38 You can follow us on Instagram at makegoodpod.

Jessica 00:34:46 Thank you to our amazing Patreon supporters. We love you.

Karen 00:34:51 You're awesome.

Jessica 00:34:51 Your support lets us do this every week and never take on advertisers because no one likes advertising.

Karen 00:34:58 You can visit our website and check out the show notes and you can send us questions to and please include your pronouns so that we can appropriately refer to you.

Jessica 00:34:58 Amazing. That's it. We'll talk to you next week.

Karen 00:34:58 Bye.